Friday, February 13, 2009

Failing to understand the nature of an understanding God

I found this in the Age the other day, is well-written, and a good perspective on some fairly shambolic opinions-unlike mine of course that are all completely coherent and accurately representative of God ;)

Disclaimer: Please note, this author's views have at times been known to be massively shambolic also, so no opinions high ground can really be taken.

Barney Zwartz
February 12, 2009
Christian leader Danny Nalliah's rantings about the bushfires are wrong.

CONTROVERSIAL Christian leader Danny Nalliah says the Victorian bushfires are a punishment for decriminalising abortion. Danny Nalliah is wildly wrong. He is wrong as a theologian, a thinker and a pastor, and has shocked and appalled both the mainstream community and the vast majority of his fellow Christians. They feel he has brought the name of Christ into disrepute.

At a time like this, the role of religion is not explanation; it is consolation. It is to seek to offer comfort and hope, a way of going on.

Uniting Church of Australia president Gregor Henderson speaks for most in saying Nalliah's claim is ludicrous, abhorrent and misunderstands the nature of God.

Henderson says: "God is not punishing the people of Victoria, so many of whom lost their lives, and so many more of whom are working day and night to fight fires, support the victims and provide food, clothing and shelter. God is, in fact, there with the people, in the middle of their suffering; God is made known through the love that is extended to those most in need."

Nalliah — senior pastor of Catch the Fire Ministries, a man who has enjoyed the support of former prime minister John Howard and treasurer Peter Costello — is a Pentecostal from the apocalyptic and ecstatic end of Christianity who believes God still speaks in dreams and prophecies.

He had a dream on October 21 in which Victoria was ablaze. He says he awoke, and the Spirit of God told him God had removed his protection, Victoria would be destroyed, and Nalliah should call God's people to repent and pray. He published this on his website in November.

Whether God speaks in dreams, I cannot say. The first two verses of the New Testament book of Hebrews strongly suggest otherwise (that in the past God spoke in various ways but now has spoken by his son). I can say the Bible refutes the idea that suffering is God's punishment. In the Gospel of Luke, for example, Jesus is asked exactly this question of two groups of people who died, and replies: "Do you think they were worse sinners? I tell you, no."

Another key text is the Old Testament book of Job, probably the oldest in the Bible, which ponders suffering. The answer Job is given is that there is no answer — at least, not one accessible to humans; we can only endure. God rebukes Job's comforters for offering false answers.

This might lead pastors who respect the Scripture, as Nalliah says he does, to be wary about offering explanations on behalf of God. His explanation might readily be ignored, except that something like it so often emerges at times of disaster (think hurricane Katrina and the gay mardi gras in New Orleans).

It is simply colossal arrogance to presume to speak for God in this way. To understand God fully, one would have to be God — his thoughts are not our thoughts, the prophet Isaiah says.

Do such Christians really believe God punishes the innocent to teach the guilty? Jeremiah contradicted that idea more than 2500 years ago. Meanwhile, there is another lesson from Job that impertinent pastors could ponder: "Man is born to trouble, as surely as the sparks fly upward."

I don't have the temerity to suggest any spiritual explanation for the bushfires, but there are certainly spiritual lessons — not least, what a gift life is and how precious we are to each other.

At times like this I turn to perhaps my favourite Bible verse, Romans 8:28: "In all things, God works for the good of those who love him." How and why, I cannot know — it is a matter of faith and I know that for many this will bring no consolation. But I also know that such thoughts have provided comfort through millennia of suffering.

As a young Christian exploring the denominations, I met many Pentecostals who claimed to prophesy ( "Thus saith the Lord …") and was struck by how unfailingly God's word through them precisely mirrored their own obsessions.

I don't doubt Danny Nalliah is sincerely disturbed by the Victorian abortion law. I don't even doubt he means well. I do very much doubt that his vision is from God.

Barney Zwartz is religion editor.

22 comments:

owl said...

Revelations from Hebrews 1 . .
heard a bit of that lately.

S said...

化妝品包 裝 化妝品盒 紙盒 彩色印刷 彩盒 14藥盒 老人癡呆症 情緒管理 慈善 慈善基金會 慈善機構 婚友 婚友社 婚友聯誼 婚友聯誼社 愛情公寓 聯誼 Hook and Loop 加盟創業 健康滷味 洗包包加盟 洗鞋加盟 Injection Mold Injection molding Light guide panels Mold design Mold development Plastic injection molding Plastic injection Plastic Products apartment 日租套房 台北日租 台北民宿 酒店式公寓 汽車美容 汽車美容 汽車美容 訂婚喜餅 訂婚禮盒 喜餅 喜餅價格 喜餅禮盒 彌月送禮 肉毒桿菌瘦臉 整型診所 醫學美容 醫學美容診所 外遇 徵信 徵信社 月子中心 美國月子中心 美國月子中心 美國月子中心 團體服

S said...

租台北辦公室 出租辦公室 租辦公室 辦公室出售 辦公室出租 中古車估價 中古車行 中古車行情 中古車買賣 二手車 汽車借款 借款 當鋪 融資 票貼 當鋪 汽車借款 北區借款 桃園當鋪15 北區當鋪

S said...

近視雷射 眼科 眼睛雷射 無刀雷射 雷射近視 台北辦公室 安泰登峰 商用不動產 廠辦 外遇 徵信 徵信社 桃園房屋仲介 桃園房屋買賣 104人力銀行 104求職人力銀行 1111求職人力銀行 找工作 求職 中古車 led招牌 招牌 招牌製作 法拍屋 油漆工 油漆工程 油漆粉刷 桃園土地 桃園房屋 桃園房屋仲介 桃園房屋買賣 桃園房屋網 桃園房屋 桃園房屋仲介 ISO9001認證 射出成形 無塵室射出 塑膠製成品 1塑膠模具設計 精密射出 模具開發 膠框 導光板 縫衣機塑件 外遇 徵信 展場設計 展覽設計 會場設計 104法拍網 大台北法拍屋 台北法拍屋 房屋仲介 房屋買賣 板橋法拍屋 法拍 法拍屋 法拍屋查詢系統 信義房屋 婦產科診所 印刷

S said...

辦公室 辦公室出租 律師 seo 關鍵字 關鍵字行銷 關鍵字 關鍵字行銷 汽車美容 food processing mixers frying machine patty machine vegetable machine 工廠風水 命理風水 居家風水 風水 風水地理 風水擺設 勘輿 陽宅 陽宅風水 辦公室風水 印刷服務 近視 眼科 泰國 近視雷射 眼科 印度 西班牙 京都 東京 法國 美國 英國 埃及 義大利 2歐洲 casino gaming machine gaming machine manufacturer slot game machine slot machine cabinet slot machine manufacturer 婚紗照 婚紗攝影 婚禮 結婚 禮服 seo

S said...

彌月禮 彌月禮盒 股市分析 股市億萬贏家 股票行情 股票教學 8股票軟體 實驗動物 徵信 徵信社 外遇 草本茶 養生茶 有機茶 送禮 花草茶 茶包 果粒茶 上海自由行 北京自由行 杭州旅遊 便宜機票 旅行社 旅遊網 泰國清邁 團體旅遊 簽證 水管不通 抽化糞池 洗水塔 消毒 馬桶 馬桶不通 通水管通馬桶 化糞池 抽水肥 團體服 團體服 團體服訂做 手提紙袋 手提袋 包裝紙盒 包裝紙袋 包裝盒 紙盒印刷 紙盒訂裝 紙袋工廠 紙袋包裝 紙袋印刷 漆彈 台中漆彈場 3 漆彈 宜蘭民宿 宜蘭住宿 宜蘭飯店 花東旅遊 訂房網 訂房網 網路訂房 線上訂房 肉毒桿菌

S said...

Precision Mold 水餃 拉麵 泡菜 美食 食品批發 9團購美食 養生涼麵 麵條 麵條製作 香港自由行 澳門自由行 法律事務所 律師 律師事務所 離婚 搬家公司 Electronic PCB Flex PCB Heavy Copper PCB Industrial PCB Medical PCB Microwave PCB PCB RF PCB Rigid-Flex PCB seo 統一發票3 4月 統一發票7 8月 統一發票1 2月 統一發票9 10月 統一發票9 10月 統一發票5 6月 seo 水晶燈 流行燈飾 原裝進口燈飾 照明 洗包包加盟 洗鞋子 洗鞋加盟 洗鞋店 創業 鞋之澡堂 消防公司 消防設備 消防設備 崴立機電 機電 環保袋 環保袋 環保袋 環保袋 地板施工 超耐磨地板

lol said...

美容補習班,婚紗,彩妝教學,新娘祕書,新娘秘書,machining center,包裝設計,伴手禮盒,紀念品,茶葉,禮品 溫泉會館,villa,巴里島自由行,巴里島精緻套裝,峇里島自由行,茶葉禮盒,雷射雕刻,伴手禮,禮品公司,贈品 伴手禮,伴手禮盒,水晶,廠房,工廠,農地,土地買賣,農地買賣,廠房出租,廠房出售,工業用地,廠辦,租廠房

lol said...

室內設計,室內裝潢,桃園室內設計,室內裝潢設計,室內設計裝潢,裝潢,裝潢設計,室內空間設計,台北室內設計,舊屋翻新,聯誼活動,交友,網路交友,戀愛,近視雷射,室內設計,清潔公司,清潔公司,月子中心,坐月子中心,飛梭雷射,品牌行銷,CIS,設計公司,廣告設計,平面設計,新娘秘書,結婚金飾,鑽石婚戒,塑膠袋,塑膠袋批發,塑膠袋工廠,塑膠袋,塑膠袋批發,iso,

lol said...

新竹搬家公司,搬家公司,整形,整形,韓風整形,韓風整形,早餐店加盟,創業加盟店,創業開店,開店創業,牙周病,牙周病治療方法,牙齒美白,植牙,植牙費用,iso認證,Ohsas 18001,品質管理,教育訓練,台北搬家公司,桃園搬家公司,搬家公司,新竹搬家公司,搬家公司,< 整形,韓風整形,早餐店加盟,創業加盟店,創業開店,開店創業,巴里島,牙周病

lol said...

外遇,徵信社,徵信,室內設計,裝潢,網頁設計,網頁設計公司,seo,關鍵字廣告,網路行銷,網路廣告,水餃,台北素食餐廳,吃素,素食,素食水餃,素食餐廳,健康飲食,團購美食,素食食譜,素食料理,麻糬,
,團購美食,彌月禮盒,皮膚科,皮膚科診所,肉毒桿菌,肉毒桿菌瘦臉,柔膚雷射,玻尿酸,飛梭雷射,脈衝光,除斑,台北搬家公司,桃園搬家公司,搬家公司

lol said...

104求職人力銀行,104人力銀行,104求職人力銀行,1111人力銀行 31111人力銀行求職,統一發票9 10月,中古車,中古車買賣,台北人力銀行,特色餐廳,景觀餐廳,親子餐廳,黃金價格查詢,金價查詢,黃金,黃金買賣,黃金價格查詢,今日金價,金價查詢,金價,黃金價格,google關鍵字廣告,網路行銷,關鍵字,關鍵字行銷,關鍵字廣告,壁癌,房屋貸款,信用貸款,貸款,外遇,徵信,徵信社,搬家公司,台北搬家公司,seo

lol said...

網站設計,班服,團體服創意,T恤,T恤,團體服,POLO衫,圍裙,熱水器,包子,四神湯,宅配美食,肉粽,太平山,宜蘭旅遊,宜蘭民宿,團體服,團體服,肉毒桿菌禿頭,玻尿酸,美白,減肥,痘疤,雷射溶脂,電波拉皮,皺紋

chenlina said...

chenllina20150911
michael kors handbags
longchamp le pliage
louis vuitton handbags
timberlands
ray ban eyeglasses
nike sb
toms promo code
michael kors outlet
michael kors uk
timberland pro
michael kors outlet online
oakley sunglasses
toms outlet
louis vuitton
ralph lauren outlet
jordan 3 retro
louis vuitton outlet
ncaa jerseys
timberland boots
louis vuitton outlet
ugg boots sale
louis vuitton outlet
nike trainers uk
louis vuitton handbags
ed hardy outlet
michael kors outlet
coach outlet online
vans shoes sale
adidas originals
instyler curling iron
oakley sunglasses
gucci outlet online
coach handags
fitflops sale
true religion outlet
coach outlet online
ralph lauren sale
hermes bags
tod's outlet
michael kors outlet

Minko Chen said...

air jordan 13
baltimore ravens
ferragamo outlet
michael kors outlet
north face jackets
oklahoma city thunder
beats by dre
salomon shoes
air force 1 shoes
abercrombie and fitch
supra shoes
roshe run men
tiffany and co
tods shoes
golden state warriors
michael kors outlet
ugg outlet
san antonio spurs
coach outlet online
los angeles clippers
1106MINKO

huangqing said...

true religion jeans
gucci outlet online
longchamp outlet
swarovski outlet
polo ralph lauren
ralph lauren uk
coach outlet
ray-ban sunglasses
mlb jerseys
longchamp pliage
michael kors outlet clearance
ralph lauren shirts
swarovski crystal
longchamp pas cher
toms shoes
longchamp handbags
true religion sale
cartier sunglasses
michael kors handbags
chrome hearts outlet
oakley sunglasses
ralph lauren uk
mulberry sale
louis vuitton sunglasses
fitflops shoes
coach handbags outlet
michael kors handbags
fitflops sale
nike roshe
prada shoes
coach outlet
kate spade uk
louis vuitton outlet online
burberry sunglasses
ralph lauren pas cher
16.6.10qqqqqing

Fangyaya said...

air jordan shoes
michael kors outlet
ralph lauren outlet
louboutin shoes
coach outlet
coach outlet
toms wedges
michael kors purses
discount jordans
nike sb dunks
coach outlet online
polo ralph lauren
cheap basketball shoes
michael kors outlet clearance
louis vuitton outlet
ray ban sunglasses
louis vuitton outlet
nike roshe run women
ralph lauren polo
oakley outlet
cartier watches
air max
adidas superstars
cheap toms
adidas nmd
kobe shoes
nike running shoes for women
rolex watches
ray ban sunglasses uk
cheap nfl jerseys
gucci outlet
michael kors outlet clearance
tod's shoes
hollister jeans
toms wedges
michael kors outlet
ray ban sunglasses
kobe 8
the north face outlet
nike free run
20166.29linlinlin


Fangyaya said...

prada handbags
cheap jordan shoes
ugg uk
gucci bags
christian louboutin outlet
coach outlet online
michael kors outlet online
jordan shoes
cheap air jordans
ugg boots uk
canada goose sale
polo ralph lauren
kate spade outlet
coach outlet store online clearances
the north face outlet
adidas yeezy 350
coach factory outlet
uggs sale
michael kors outlet clearance
cheap uggs
louis vuitton purses
coach outlet
toms outlet
coach outlet online
mont blanc pens outlet
gucci bags
michael kors
ugg outlet online
toms shoes uk
polo ralph lauren outlet
cheap rolex watches
jordan shoes
kate spade handbags
canada goose outlet
louis vuitton purses
oakley sunglasses outlet
cheap uggs
hollister clothing
oakley outlet
adidas nmd runner
20169.12chenjinyan

raybanoutlet001 said...

versacethis
nike air force 1of
armani exchangeTHESE
instyler max 2in
ed hardy clothingfor
nike blazer pas cherand
cheap oakley sunglasseshave
nike huarachetime
jordan shoesbuy
nike outlet storetime.

raybanoutlet001 said...

bills jerseys
giants jersey
new york giants jerseys
michael kors handbags
salomon boots
rolex replica
christian louboutin shoes
ed hardy
michael kors handbags
supra shoes sale

龙大猫 said...

longchamp online shop
nike air max 2016
air yeezy
michael kors outlet online
michael kors outlet
yeezy boost 350
nike roshe run one
yeezy boost 350
michael kors outlet
nike roshe run

caiyan said...

los angeles dodgers jerseys
ralph lauren sale clearance
ralph lauren outlet
toms shoes
mont blanc
seattles eahawks jerseys
ralph lauren outlet
dansko shoes
cheap ray bans
pandora
0503shizhong